We were having this discussion in the comments area and I felt it important enough to repost it in the main blog..I feel we have to look at our dark side if we are to become a more compassionate society ..not permissive mind you, only forgiving and giving people a chance to make amends :
Friday, October 28, 2005
11 comments:
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Anonymous said...
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this post immediately reminded of this news item:
http://www.utusan.com.my/utusan/content.asp?y=2005&dt=1027&pub=Utusan_Malaysia&sec=Dalam_Negeri&pg=dn_01.htm
you know how people keep saying... awak tu perempuan, kalau jadi apa2 awak je yang tanggung semuanya.. lelaki tu tak luak apa pun!
like K has so rightly pointed out, it takes two to tango, why should only the woman shoulder all the blame? -
11:14 PM
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dith said...
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Is it just us Malays ?
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5:46 AM
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Suriya said...
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De Roza
Indeed others do it too, but that is their problem ..Us denying our dark side is our problem.I like to focus on our area of influence , not our area of concern
Crimson: The thing is that men want a good woman for the mother of their children ..so they make sure they have a woman who is *good*..they can have fun with the *bad* women..but you know what? The children may just have a *bad* father, -
7:39 AM
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Anonymous said...
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It would be good if a good man ends up with an equally good woman. Blessed are all the children from this blissful marriage.
Not too good then for a *bad* man (and vice versa) who is lucky enough to find himself a good wife (or husband), because the children will still have a *bad* father (or mother).
The worst scenario has to be when a *bad* man ends up with a *bad* woman as a wife. The children will end up with *bad parents* -
7:56 AM
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Anonymous said...
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Which category will we fall in or fit in....??
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7:58 AM
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Suriya said...
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You know Pycno, I don t like labels for people ..all of us have baaad and have goood...its just that sometimes doing something baaaad leaves a mark and sometimes it doesn t ..reminds me of the Novel , the Scarlet Letter..they used to make women who committed adultery wear a scarlet letter..I realise that when somebody does something baaad and they are able to hide it from the society , their lives are saved but when they cannot hide it , their lives are ruined.
Once , my mother in law took in a 14 year old girl who was made pregnant by her cousin. The father was an Imam ..So the girl was my ma in laws guest until she delivered and then she went back to school...we made sure the school and the orang kampung did not know about it, so she managed to go back to being a school girl and has since finished school and is furthering her studies..the daughter she gave birth to was adopted by my brother in law. Her mum still comes to visit her..Had we not kept it a deep dark secret, the girl would have been sent to a correctional center and her life would be ruined for these centers are notorious for turning innocents into hard core criminals.The girl was actually raped although she did not resist..the cousin used to come in via a window while she was sleeping...
There was another case in which the rapist was the girls own grandpa..I was much younger then and did not know any better so I referred the case to kebajikan and the 12 year old was not allowed to take her UPSR , was put in a correctional home, grandpa sent to jail and the family fell apart because all the relatives and the ma and dad had a huge argument over it..had I known what I know now, I would rather let the grandpa go scot free and save the family....esepcially the girl
Why is our society so unforgiving..and why does it punish the vulnerable? -
8:31 AM
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Anonymous said...
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The two real life examples you've given are so very interesting, Nurelhuda. You have done the right thing in the first one, just as I also feel that you have also done the right thing (under those circumstances) with your second.
Dont you think that there's no easy solution in this kind of cases, especially when it has been brought to the attention of ALL the parties concerned - the doctors, the Social Welfare Department,the police, the AG's Chambers, the Press and of course...the UNFORGIVING PUBLIC.
So, why is our society so unforgiving?
*SIGH* -
7:09 AM
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Suriya said...
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Pycno, Thanks for your comments on the last 2 kisah benars. I just want to add that in the last case I talked about, the parents of the girl made a huge mistake that no good well informed Muslim would make. They allowed their daughter to sleep on the same bed with the grandfather ..I asked them a question: Don't you know anything about Islamic rulings about who can sleep with who?I really think the grandpa is a vulgar old man but who knows maybe he was just plain senile and thought his grandchild was his wife. When I saw her she was already 6 months pregnant and had not a clue how she got pregnant. I had to describe the act to her and ask her , who did this with you? And she named her grandpa.
As a result of this case, I told my NGO that Sexual education has to be taught in school as early as possible and the children have to be taught what kind of touching is a no no as well as the consequences of *the love*..Anyway, we do have a sexual health module now for kids..If you have a school that you have a link to and want this module to be presented to the kids, I can get you in touch with relevent person..we have several presenters so I think we have the whole country covered.. -
8:41 AM
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Anonymous said...
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We once had Dr. Harlina coming over to our university (MMU Melaka) for this talk... she delivered very well indeed, it was just a little bit of pity that the time was not right (exams are around the corner and there were only a handful of attendance).
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12:14 AM
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Led said...
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Dr,
I really need your advise.
I know that this girl has a really bad history and insaf. But, shall I accept her to be the one of my life? I believe, human are born to make mistakes. But not this kind of mistakes. Mistakes of giving her all what she have to some one else. And am I supposed to be the Pak Sanggup!?!? I don't think so. -
10:31 AM
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Suriya said...
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Dear Led
If you feel that way then don't because it will have long term repercussions.The right person for her will be the one who can accept her past and still appreciate and love her for what she is now, not one who will keep thinking about her past and use her past to blame her every time something goes wrong in the relationship -
10:36 AM
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Once I had evening breakfast at Saujana Hyatt yesterday with my chinese girl, we talk about relationship. My chinese girl said that it will be hard for a malay girl to be fond and married by a man once they knew that they already have a past experience of physical connotation.From my opinion, it is unfair to treat individual like this. What ever past is past. But somehow, do really guys like wanted to admit that it's all about the gentleman dignity and virginity.
9:11 AM
Yes we Malays have double standards Led. That is true. Like it is ok for a man but not ok for a woman..Know what I think? I think we do not understand God's rulings on sexual relationships.
3:16 PM
:) I am still a romantic at heart too, and inshaAllah I have married my soulmate. But even then, loving still needs a lot of hard work and patience, which I only understood fully after marriage.
I do meet some people that I instantly like, some people I dislike initially but later on like, some people who I dislike (although I try to keep my mind open about them for a while) and a few people who inspire love, both male and female. But it has always been clear why they inspire love in me; mainly it is because of their humility and their love of God. :)
Re: double standards, what is past is past. Everyone makes mistakes. I am more comfortable with people who have sinned but know that it is wrong than with people who sin but say that it's okay/promote others to it.
8:13 PM
K
Yesterday my patient was crying and crying and she said she had a bad headache from worrying, I frankly hoped she would not tell me her woes, my heart had opened to her and as I held her hand and lead her through some zikr and breathing, I could even feel her headache and heartache..she spilled the beans..I guess she was bursting to tell someone. She was 2 months pregnant and had done it with her fiance who had insisted she go for an abortion. He refused to marry her earlier than the date they had agreed upon. She had a choice of keeping the baby and probably losing her fiance as well as her family's support and love and her reputation or, go for the abortion and lose her child. What a dilemma!It is wrong , she had done wrong and she knew it..but our society is even more wrong to give her such awful choices....why are we so judgemental??
8:24 PM
Erghh I feel so mad at the fiance for not standing by her when she needs it most! (my feminist past rearing up her head?) It takes two to tango, so two should shoulder the responsibility. I am seriously wondering if she should marry a man who would kill his own child, and would not exhaust all the avenues before. May Allah ease her suffering and forgive her, amiin.
Maybe we are judgemental because we want to feel superior and we also refuse to admit that any one of us could have gone down the same path, only the grace of Allah saved us. Or perhaps some of it is also fear of being lenient might actually be taken as endorsement of the enormity.
I am now looking deep into my heart and asking myself, how would I look at the lady if I were to meet her,knowing her sin? I feel shame of daring to think bad of others whose sins Allah exposed, when I probably have done plenty of stuff in secret, when taken in total, might surpass her one enormity. Perhaps she might be admitted to Paradise ahead of me in the end, for the way we leave this life also matters. We don't know our end, we can only hope (and work!) for His Mercy for our death and eternal life.
Ya Allah please forgive all our wrongs, whether done consciously or unconsciously, amiin.
9:14 PM
K
You have hit the nail on the head with this statement:
Maybe we are judgemental because we want to feel superior and we also refuse to admit that any one of us could have gone down the same path, only the grace of Allah saved us. Or perhaps some of it is also fear of being lenient might actually be taken as endorsement of the enormity.
We Malays are very good at denying our dark side and disowning our dark side makes us unable to do more than sweep the problem under the carpet
10:13 PM
this post immediately reminded of this news item:
http://www.utusan.com.my/utusan/content.asp?y=2005&dt=1027&pub=Utusan_Malaysia&sec=Dalam_Negeri&pg=dn_01.htm
you know how people keep saying... awak tu perempuan, kalau jadi apa2 awak je yang tanggung semuanya.. lelaki tu tak luak apa pun!
like K has so rightly pointed out, it takes two to tango, why should only the woman shoulder all the blame?
11:14 PM
Is it just us Malays ?
5:46 AM
De Roza
Indeed others do it too, but that is their problem ..Us denying our dark side is our problem.I like to focus on our area of influence , not our area of concern
Crimson: The thing is that men want a good woman for the mother of their children ..so they make sure they have a woman who is *good*..they can have fun with the *bad* women..but you know what? The children may just have a *bad* father,
7:39 AM
It would be good if a good man ends up with an equally good woman. Blessed are all the children from this blissful marriage.
Not too good then for a *bad* man (and vice versa) who is lucky enough to find himself a good wife (or husband), because the children will still have a *bad* father (or mother).
The worst scenario has to be when a *bad* man ends up with a *bad* woman as a wife. The children will end up with *bad parents*
7:56 AM
Which category will we fall in or fit in....??
7:58 AM
You know Pycno, I don t like labels for people ..all of us have baaad and have goood...its just that sometimes doing something baaaad leaves a mark and sometimes it doesn t ..reminds me of the Novel , the Scarlet Letter..they used to make women who committed adultery wear a scarlet letter..I realise that when somebody does something baaad and they are able to hide it from the society , their lives are saved but when they cannot hide it , their lives are ruined.
Once , my mother in law took in a 14 year old girl who was made pregnant by her cousin. The father was an Imam ..So the girl was my ma in laws guest until she delivered and then she went back to school...we made sure the school and the orang kampung did not know about it, so she managed to go back to being a school girl and has since finished school and is furthering her studies..the daughter she gave birth to was adopted by my brother in law. Her mum still comes to visit her..Had we not kept it a deep dark secret, the girl would have been sent to a correctional center and her life would be ruined for these centers are notorious for turning innocents into hard core criminals.The girl was actually raped although she did not resist..the cousin used to come in via a window while she was sleeping...
There was another case in which the rapist was the girls own grandpa..I was much younger then and did not know any better so I referred the case to kebajikan and the 12 year old was not allowed to take her UPSR , was put in a correctional home, grandpa sent to jail and the family fell apart because all the relatives and the ma and dad had a huge argument over it..had I known what I know now, I would rather let the grandpa go scot free and save the family....esepcially the girl
Why is our society so unforgiving..and why does it punish the vulnerable?
8:31 AM
As a result of this case, I told my NGO that Sexual education has to be taught in school as early as possible and the children have to be taught what kind of touching is a no no as well as the consequences of *the love*..Anyway, we do have a sexual health module now for kids..If you have a school that you have a link to and want this module to be presented to the kids, I can get you in touch with relevent person..we have several presenters so I think we have the whole country covered..